TL;DR

LA Post Fire: Phase 1 Debris Removal 

Host: iO Tillet- Wright, wildfire survivor and activist 

https://www.iolovesyou.com/, postfirela.org 

Guest: Harry Allen, a Federal On-Scene Coordinator for the EPA. Allen has 27 years of experience, with 22 years at the EPA, specializing in spill and chemical release remediation. https://www.linkedin.com/in/harryalleniv/ 

Video of this conversation can be found here: 

https://youtu.be/q2gVPV4StYs?si=B2L6DtQzjZRV19K5 

● Focus of EPA's Phase One Debris Removal: 

○ Phase one entails removing hazardous and partially burned household chemicals (e.g., propane cans, paint, pesticides, oil) and electronic waste (e.g., burnt TVs, CPUs, solar panels). 

○ It does not involve the removal of ash, soil, or widespread toxins, which are part of phase two. 

○ Loose asbestos is marked or removed, but full asbestos and toxin removal occur in later stages. 

● Clarification of EPA Responsibilities: 

○ EPA focuses on removing materials that could be hazardous if left behind or improperly disposed of. 

○ Ash and other toxic debris remain until phase two, handled by state and county agencies. 

○ California has specific regulations for proper disposal of burned materials to prevent health risks and environmental damage. 

○ The public often confuses EPA’s role with broader recovery tasks, leading to frustration when certain questions cannot be answered. 

○ Harry emphasizes the need to direct questions about air, water, beaches, soil, and re-entry to local agencies, such as Public Works or the county. 

○ Cleaning of Intact Buildings: Responsibility for cleaning is likely with County Health, not the EPA 

Items Removed During Cleanup: 

● Hazardous Household Chemicals: Paint cans, pesticides, etc. 

● Cylinders: Propane, oxygen, acetylene, butane (if not combusted).

● Asbestos: Small bits of asbestos material are removed if obvious. 

● Ammunition: Burned ammunition is removed and handed to the sheriff. ● Lithium-ion Batteries: Found in phones, laptops, vape pens, tools, toys, e-bikes, EVs, etc. Removed as they pose fire risks after exposure to fire or flood. 

Risks and Hazards: 

● Battery Combustion: Damaged lithium-ion batteries can ignite, causing jet-fire-like explosions. 

● Unexploded Items: Drones, toys, and vape pens may still pose combustion risks post-fire. 

● Environmental Concerns: Ash can get into air and water during cleanup, although precise risks are still under investigation. 

Transportation and Disposal Process: 

● Materials are double-bagged at the burn site before transport. 

● Trucks with plastic liners are used to prevent contamination during transit. ● At staging areas: 

○ Materials are sorted under a tent. 

○ Items are placed in specialized containers (e.g., red bins for asbestos). ○ Containers are sealed and sent to appropriate disposal facilities. 

Cleanup Protocols: 

● Crews include experts for hazardous materials and asbestos, equipped with: ○ Air, dust, radiation, and gas monitoring tools. 

○ Protective gear (respirators, full suits, hard hats, etc.). 

● Teams inspect sites, identify hazards, and collect dangerous items. 

● Waste is segregated by type (e.g., batteries, asbestos, paint) for proper disposal. Progress Tracking: 

● EPA Progress Map: 

○ Tracks cleanup phases (Phase 1: hazard removal, Phase 2: broader debris cleanup). 

○ Properties are color-coded: 

■ Yellow: Phase 1 needed. 

■ Blue: Phase 1 completed. 

○ Updates occur in real-time as properties are cleared. 

● Property Access and Categories:

○ No Access: If property owners prohibit access (e.g., fences, chains), work cannot proceed. 

○ Unsafe Properties: Some properties are deemed unsafe (e.g., leaning walls, chimneys, basements) and deferred directly to the construction phase. 

● Phased Cleanup Approach: 

○ Traditionally, cleanup phases were sequential, but now both phase one and phase two occur simultaneously to allow people to return to properties sooner. ○ Coordination between EPA and the Army Corps ensures work can progress on neighboring properties without waiting for adjacent areas. 

● Timeline and Workforce: 

○ Over 13,500 properties need cleanup, including 6,600 from the Eden Fire. ○ A large team is involved, including 700+ technicians, 80–100 Hazmat specialists, and support personnel from across the U.S. 

○ Current goal: Increase from 60 to 80 teams to expedite the process. 

● Cleanup and Safety Guidelines: 

○ Ash and debris contain hazards such as heavy metals, lead, and asbestos. ○ Protective measures include wearing gloves, booties, steel-shank boots, P100 respirators, hazmat suits, and goggles. 

○ Ash is highly alkaline (pH of 12) and can burn skin and eyes. Avoid bringing ash into cars or homes. 

○ Walking in burn zones is dangerous due to hidden hazards (e.g., nails, falling debris). 

● Air Quality and Hazards: 

○ Fine particles like asbestos can cause long-term lung damage if inhaled. ○ Wearing proper masks (e.g., P100 respirators) is critical to prevent inhaling harmful particles.

● Coordination and Monitoring: 

○ Teams use a mapping system to track daily progress and areas of operation, visible to the public for transparency. 

○ Efforts are made to avoid neighborhood congestion by staggering cleanup operations. 

● Disposal of Materials: 

○ Trucks transporting debris are secure to prevent risks of materials flying out. ○ Disposal facilities and staging areas are monitored to ensure proper handling of hazardous waste. 

● Expert Recommendations: 

○ Experts emphasize the importance of thorough personal protection when visiting burn sites. 

○ Additional precautions like avoiding ash contact and proper footwear are critical for safety. 

General Safety and Risk Management: 

● Minimal risk of materials flying out of trucks due to secure bagging and containment. ● Low risk of materials contaminating water supply or soil, as they are safely stored and transported. 

Disposal and Staging Concerns: 

● Misunderstandings exist about where removed materials are staged and disposed of. ● Materials like asbestos are sent to asbestos-only landfills with stringent handling protocols. 

● E-waste and hazardous chemicals are transported to specialized recycling or disposal facilities. 

● California has robust programs for the safe disposal of asbestos, e-waste, and hazardous materials. 

Transportation and Legal Compliance: 

● Transport involves detailed agreements with receiving facilities, manifests, and proper labeling. 

● Materials are inspected, bagged, and sorted following strict legal and safety guidelines.

Specific Disposal Examples: 

● Asbestos: Sent to dedicated landfills in sealed bags. 

● E-waste: Sent to permitted recycling facilities. 

● Metal debris: Scrapped if non-hazardous. 

● Hazardous chemicals: Sent to specialized facilities in California, Nevada, or other states. ● Unique or unknown substances: Tested in the field or with advanced lab equipment before disposal. 

Access and Cleanup Process: 

● If access to damaged properties (e.g., garages) is an issue, residents can contact the EPA hotline for assistance. 

● Hotline: 833-798-7372 (or R9 US EPA for old-fashioned contact). 

Tree Markings and Safety: 

● Trees are inspected by arborists to assess hazards: 

○ White "X": High risk of falling. 

○ Equal sign: Medium hazard. 

○ Arrow: Overhead hazards like branches at risk of falling. 

● Arborists work to ensure worker safety in cleanup zones. 

Site Selection Challenges: 

● Initial sites like Will Rogers were vetoed due to competition with other organizations and local opposition. 

● Current sites, like Topanga Canyon, are acknowledged to have challenges (size, traffic, flood zones, cultural significance). 

● Efforts are being made to address community concerns and collaborate with stakeholders, including tribal representatives and state park officials. 

Community Concerns: 

● Residents express concerns about pollution risks and the safety of chosen staging sites. ● Ongoing negotiations may lead to reconsideration of staging areas like Will Rogers. ● Staging areas for hazardous waste are monitored with seven air quality stations for dust, gases, and toxins. 

● No health risks from staging areas; concerns primarily involve traffic. 

● Residents can report issues via hotline (833-798-7372).] 

● Safety and Site Management:

○ Collaboration with trained experts, including Native Indian representatives and landslide experts, ensures safety at the sites. 

○ Army Corps of Engineers manages sites with environmental controls. ○ Operations prioritize safety, minimizing risks like landslides or debris falls. 

● Project Timelines: 

○ The team has 30 days (starting January 25th) to complete Phase 1 of debris removal, currently around 10% complete. 

● Focus on Community Impact: 

○ The EPA team includes locals affected by disasters, emphasizing commitment to restoring their communities. 

○ The project aims to reduce the burden on affected sites and prepare for long-term recovery. 

Health and Safety Advice 

● Returning Home: 

○ Residents should prioritize safety, as disaster zones can pose risks like accidents. 

○ Long-term recovery will address ash and debris removal through Phase 2 operations. 

● Air Quality Concerns: 

○ Residents can monitor air quality via the South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD). 

Resources & Support 

● Information Access: 

○ Residents can join the survivors' network at postfirela.org for updates and Q&A sessions. 

○ EPA hotline: 833-798-7372 for complaints or concerns.